Thread: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

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  • #41
    shami11
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    باوا جی – کشمیر ایسے آزاد نہی ہونا ، آئی ایس پی آر کو چاہئیں کے ایک عدد ترانہ بنا کر انڈیا کے منہ پر مارے ، عمران خان کو چاہئیں کے بارڈر پر اونچی آواز میں ڈیک بجا کر جلسے کرے

    شامی بھائی اس نے کہہ تو دیا ہے کہ میں نے ملائیشیا کے وزیر اعظم اور ترکی کے صدر کو فون تو کر دیا ہے اب کیا میں بھارت پر حملہ کرکے خود کشی کر لوں؟ مجھے وہ بندر یاد آگیا جسے جنگل کا بادشاہ بنا دیا گیا تھا. اس کے پاس ایک کالی بھیڑ روتی پیٹتی ہوئی آئی اور بولی کہ میرا بچہ بھیڑیا اٹھا کر لے گیا ہے، وہ میرے بچے کو کھا جائے گا، میرا بچہ مجھے واپس دلانے کیلیے کچھ کریں. بندر ایک درخت سے دوسرے درخت پر اور دوسرے درخت سے تیسرے درخت پر چھلانگ لگاتے ہوئے بولا کہ تم دیکھ نہیں رہی ہو کہ میں کتنا پریشان ہوں اب کیا میں بھیڑیے پر حملہ کرکے خود کشی کر لوں؟
    #42
    Muhammad Hafeez
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    وزیر خارجہ قریشی نے بیان دیا ہے کہ انڈیا کا اقدام غیر متوقع تھا اس پھدو کو کوئی بتاۓ کہ یہ مودی سرکار کا ایک بڑا انتخابی نعرہ تھا …پہلے اس وجہ سے ایسا نہیں ہوا کہ بی جے پی کو سینٹ میں اکثریت حاصل نہیں تھی اور قانون پاس نہ ہوسکتا تھا عمران نے کیا ایک سے بڑھ کر ایک نمونہ کابینہ میں بھرتی کیا ہوا ہے

    انڈیا نے امرناتھ یاترا کو مختصر کردیا تھا اس کی وجہ جاننے کی کوشش بھی نہیں کی کسی نے

    https://www.livemint.com/news/india/pilgrims-face-surge-in-airfares-as-amarnath-yatra-curtailed-1564851505797.html

    :(

    #43
    Bawa
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    امریکی ثالثی پر لڈیاں ڈالنے والوں کے منہ پر تھپڑ

    #44
    Lovelyday
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    Most plausible angle to look at India’s J&K action is against the backdrop of US and Taliban home stretch  for a peace agreement.

    As soon as Trump egged his desire to get out of Afghanistan with or without a peace deal, the regional actors (count as many as you could) started jocking for their interests in the land locked state.  Taliban agreed to not share Afghanistan land sovereignty under their control with terrorist organizations but also refused US presence in their land as well. The challenge for US and Nato is how to respond in case of an actionable lead in Afghanistan and how to counter or monitor regional power’s influence against US interests. Trump tried hard to pursue India to get Indian army in Afghanistan but to no avail. India could have agreed to send its forces and support Ghani+Karzai groups as well as had protected its billions of dollars of investment in building a library.  But in hind sight it appears that Modi blinked.

    Trump under immense pressure to bring back his army from Afghanistan and use this achievement for 2020 election, realized that this could not happen without Pakistan.

    Regional powers specially India not believing in US achieving the peace with Taliban, mostly ignored Kahlilzad and his peace mission. But, Khalilzad opened new dialog with Pakistan with a flip flop that stunned the diplomatic circles. Pakistan under “maximum pressure” saw the light at the end of the tunnel and jumped at the opportunity with a bang.

    First Pakistan helped US conceive intra-afghan meet in Qatar. This was a huge success as even Russia could not have brought Ghani govt to participate in its summit with Taliban. Secondly, Pakistan hosted by congregating all  other militant groups as well as Afghan politicians in Lahore. After that, Taliban  agreed to visit (or basically showed willingness to join the peace process) Pakistan on a formal invitation by Imran and this time Afghan government (Prez Ghani) did not object as it did before. This showed that there is a way to reconcile all Afghan parties and group on an agenda that could give US “mission accomplished” banner for Afghanistan war.

    These activities showed that quite the contrary, Pakistan not only has leverage over Taliban but also over all the major players in Afghanistan political set up. Additionally, it is a partner which could serve as a launching pad for US + Nato intelligence base when US forces are pulled out.

    Khalilzad’s efforts of more than a year had brought nothing but travel expenses, and political dismay for Trump. But as soon as, Trump gave Pakistan a chance to prove him wrong, to everyone’s surprise, Pakistan delivered the progress report with glowing colors, leaving India shining like a billboard in the middle of a desert. India had been castigated from all summits by all parties, be it China or Russia. US even went further in early July by not even inviting India to peace talks in Afghanistan and officially formed a consultation group, ” quadrilateral consultation group“, with its members as US, China, Russia and Pakistan. One can only imagine the hurt which India felt since Jan 2019 as being the main contributor in Afghanistan being elbowed out by Pakistan and world powers.

    During this time India must have been grappling with a dilemma that how to trust Trump who wants to see India challenging China but then does not even see India worthy partner in Afghan peace consultation group. Who will protect India’s market share and investment in Afghanistan if and when Taliban take the majority of the control of Afghanistan? Or what will happen if Afghanistan radiating Taliban success of defeating USSR and US successively? How will this energize militants in Kashmir and their handlers sitting in Rawalpindi? How will India bring prosperity and central government control to IOK region when its counter region under Pakistan control will thrive in due time with CPEC benefits? There must have been question abound for Indian establishment who saw it clearly its marginalizing position in the region after US pull back.

    Thats why, I believe that with renewed prestige for Pakistan after Imran’s visits to US, India could not have let Kashmir pose a serious threat to its security and control over the Jammu & Kashmir resources. And when Trump double down on his offer to mediate between India and Pakistan over Kashmir(obliviously Pakistan played its cards well and expected a tit for tat from US to help against Modi government threats to Pakistan with diversion of rivers), it definitely spooked the stinky cinnamon rolls out of Modi and BJP party. Having absolutely no leverage over Afghanistan development led by Pakistan, with whom Modi government during first term had delinquently burnt all the bridges and seeing how desperately Trump is relying on Pakistan to help achieve the peace deal with Taliban, BJP wasted no time to pull the pin of Kashmir hand-grenade after the elections which were perfectly choreographed to present BJP as the only savior of Indian Union.

    May be Pakistan Foreign Minister Qureshi was sleep walking during the last six to eight months and did not realize what was happening, but it absolutely was no surprise for anyone in the game to know that India was first dismayed at its ” diplomatic isolation” from the regional developments and then was threatened by Trump’s Kashmir mediation offer. It probably happened earlier than expected but it was on the cards regardless who had won the Indian elections.

    Basically, India has drawn a red line which no one can cross. This is why the world powers have a mute reaction. Pakistan is making alot of noise but I think in reality or behind the curtain they are preparing for dialogue with India, which exactly was Pakistan wants. Also, Pakistan’s first reaction was that of a casual like do what you want it has no bearing on International resolution on Kashmir in UN. And also, Pindi brigade through Musharaff had long ago clearly spelled that they are ready for LoC to become an international border as long as people of both regions of Kashmir can travel freely across it.  That will be an agenda point for discussion and action, I am sure. Also, India has hurt its chances to become a permanent member of UNSC. Not that the world and its powerful countries are principled but because they immediately saw how Indian government could sabotage international efforts when its own benefits are ignored by them. It is the job of Pakistan FO to broadcast folly of Indian government not just in international diplomatic circles but also in media and United Nation.

    But also, Pakistan has to wrap, seal and deliver the Afghan deal to Trump else diplomacy of “maximum pressure”, will continue unabated. And only achieving this successfully, Trump may come to help facilitate dialogue with India.

    So far, Pakistan is doing okay and despite playing to internal gallery it has shown to world that Kashmir issue will not distract them from Afghanistan deliverables. I hope Pakistan establishment will have the prudence and patience. Let Jammu & Kashmir, Ladakh and the world see how Modi delivers prosperity and jobs to the region. Whether Modi wins or loses, Pakistan and Kashmir are the winners in both the cases.

    #45
    Shirazi
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    Trump saying Modi asked him to mediate between India and Pakistan on Kashmir wasn’t off the hip shot. It was a bait for all that followed. PMIK and QJ Bajwa were under less domestic pressure after US trip where apprently they gained some ground on Kashmir. India apparently reacted to US statement in haste but I feel this whole thing was staged. Pakistan civ-mil leadership was either outplayed or was part of it. I hope later else Pakistan will create even a bigger mess.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Shirazi.
    #46
    shahidabassi
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    Most plausible angle to look at India’s J&K action is against the backdrop of US and Taliban home stretch for a peace agreement. As soon as Trump egged his desire to get out of Afghanistan with or without a peace deal, the regional actors (count as many as you could) started jocking for their interests in the land locked state. Taliban agreed to not share Afghanistan land sovereignty under their control with terrorist organizations but also refused US presence in their land as well. The challenge for US and Nato is how to respond in case of an actionable lead in Afghanistan and how to counter or monitor regional power’s influence against US interests. Trump tried hard to pursue India to get Indian army in Afghanistan but to no avail. India could have agreed to send its forces and support Ghani+Karzai groups as well as had protected its billions of dollars of investment in building a library. But in hind sight it appears that Modi blinked. Trump under immense pressure to bring back his army from Afghanistan and use this achievement for 2020 election, realized that this could not happen without Pakistan. Regional powers specially India not believing in US achieving the peace with Taliban, mostly ignored Kahlilzad and his peace mission. But, Khalilzad opened new dialog with Pakistan with a flip flop that stunned the diplomatic circles. Pakistan under “maximum pressure” saw the light at the end of the tunnel and jumped at the opportunity with a bang. First Pakistan helped US conceive intra-afghan meet in Qatar. This was a huge success as even Russia could not have brought Ghani govt to participate in its summit with Taliban. Secondly, Pakistan hosted by congregating all other militant groups as well as Afghan politicians in Lahore. After that, Taliban agreed to visit (or basically showed willingness to join the peace process) Pakistan on a formal invitation by Imran and this time Afghan government (Prez Ghani) did not object as it did before. This showed that there is a way to reconcile all Afghan parties and group on an agenda that could give US “mission accomplished” banner for Afghanistan war. These activities showed that quite the contrary, Pakistan not only has leverage over Taliban but also over all the major players in Afghanistan political set up. Additionally, it is a partner which could serve as a launching pad for US + Nato intelligence base when US forces are pulled out. Khalilzad’s efforts of more than a year had brought nothing but travel expenses, and political dismay for Trump. But as soon as, Trump gave Pakistan a chance to prove him wrong, to everyone’s surprise, Pakistan delivered the progress report with glowing colors, leaving India shining like a billboard in the middle of a desert. India had been castigated from all summits by all parties, be it China or Russia. US even went further in early July by not even inviting India to peace talks in Afghanistan and officially formed a consultation group, ” quadrilateral consultation group“, with its members as US, China, Russia and Pakistan. One can only imagine the hurt which India felt since Jan 2019 as being the main contributor in Afghanistan being elbowed out by Pakistan and world powers. During this time India must have been grappling with a dilemma that how to trust Trump who wants to see India challenging China but then does not even see India worthy partner in Afghan peace consultation group. Who will protect India’s market share and investment in Afghanistan if and when Taliban take the majority of the control of Afghanistan? Or what will happen if Afghanistan radiating Taliban success of defeating USSR and US successively? How will this energize militants in Kashmir and their handlers sitting in Rawalpindi? How will India bring prosperity and central government control to IOK region when its counter region under Pakistan control will thrive in due time with CPEC benefits? There must have been question abound for Indian establishment who saw it clearly its marginalizing position in the region after US pull back. Thats why, I believe that with renewed prestige for Pakistan after Imran’s visits to US, India could not have let Kashmir pose a serious threat to its security and control over the Jammu & Kashmir resources. And when Trump double down on his offer to mediate between India and Pakistan over Kashmir(obliviously Pakistan played its cards well and expected a tit for tat from US to help against Modi government threats to Pakistan with diversion of rivers), it definitely spooked the stinky cinnamon rolls out of Modi and BJP party. Having absolutely no leverage over Afghanistan development led by Pakistan, with whom Modi government during first term had delinquently burnt all the bridges and seeing how desperately Trump is relying on Pakistan to help achieve the peace deal with Taliban, BJP wasted no time to pull the pin of Kashmir hand-grenade after the elections which were perfectly choreographed to present BJP as the only savior of Indian Union. May be Pakistan Foreign Minister Qureshi was sleep walking during the last six to eight months and did not realize what was happening, but it absolutely was no surprise for anyone in the game to know that India was first dismayed at its ” diplomatic isolation” from the regional developments and then was threatened by Trump’s Kashmir mediation offer. It probably happened earlier than expected but it was on the cards regardless who had won the Indian elections. Basically, India has drawn a red line which no one can cross. This is why the world powers have a mute reaction. Pakistan is making alot of noise but I think in reality or behind the curtain they are preparing for dialogue with India, which exactly was Pakistan wants. Also, Pakistan’s first reaction was that of a casual like do what you want it has no bearing on International resolution on Kashmir in UN. And also, Pindi brigade through Musharaff had long ago clearly spelled that they are ready for LoC to become an international border as long as people of both regions of Kashmir can travel freely across it. That will be an agenda point for discussion and action, I am sure. Also, India has hurt its chances to become a permanent member of UNSC. Not that the world and its powerful countries are principled but because they immediately saw how Indian government could sabotage international efforts when its own benefits are ignored by them. It is the job of Pakistan FO to broadcast folly of Indian government not just in international diplomatic circles but also in media and United Nation. But also, Pakistan has to wrap, seal and deliver the Afghan deal to Trump else diplomacy of “maximum pressure”, will continue unabated. And only achieving this successfully, Trump may come to help facilitate dialogue with India. So far, Pakistan is doing okay and despite playing to internal gallery it has shown to world that Kashmir issue will not distract them from Afghanistan deliverables. I hope Pakistan establishment will have the prudence and patience. Let Jammu & Kashmir, Ladakh and the world see how Modi delivers prosperity and jobs to the region. Whether Modi wins or loses, Pakistan and Kashmir are the winners in both the cases.

    Excellent write

    #47
    shami11
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    باوا جی – سوشل میڈیا پر تو بتایا جا رہا تھا ، کے ٹرمپ دو ہفتے تک عمران خان سے ملاقات کے سحر میں مبتلا رہا ہے اور ہر آنے جانے والے سے عمران خان کی تعریفیں کر رہا ہے

    :serious:

    امریکی ثالثی پر لڈیاں ڈالنے والوں کے منہ پر تھپڑ
    #48
    Ghost Protocol
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    But also, Pakistan has to wrap, seal and deliver the Afghan deal to Trump else diplomacy of “maximum pressure”, will continue unabated. And only achieving this successfully, Trump may come to help facilitate dialogue with India. So far, Pakistan is doing okay and despite playing to internal gallery it has shown to world that Kashmir issue will not distract them from Afghanistan deliverables. I hope Pakistan establishment will have the prudence and patience. Let Jammu & Kashmir, Ladakh and the world see how Modi delivers prosperity and jobs to the region. Whether Modi wins or loses, Pakistan and Kashmir are the winners in both the cases.

    لولی ڈے صاحب،
    فورم پر طویل غیر حاضری کے بعد اتنی شاندار واپسی کا شکریہ
    آپ کے خیال میں پاکستان کے پاس امریکی منظور نظر معاہدہ کروانے کے لئے کونسے لیوریج یا جادو کی چھڑیاں ہیں ؟
    یہ بھی فرمایئے گا کہ ابھی جب امریکہ کی گوٹ افغانستان میں پھنسی ہویی ہے تب امریکہ نے مالی اور فوجی امداد بند کر رکھی ہے ہاتھ بھی مروڑا ہوا ہے اور ہر وقت دھمکی آمیز رویہ بھی اپناتا ہے کل جب وہ افغانستان سے نکل جائے گا تو پھر وہ کیوں بھارت سے مذاکرات کرواے گا ؟
    تیسری بات کیا دنیا کے بڑے ممالک کے مفاد پاکستان میں اس حد تک بڑھ جاہیں گے کہ وہ ہندوستان سے پاکستان کی مرضی و منشا کے مطابق مذاکرات کرنے پر دباؤ ڈال سکیں گے؟
    چوتھی بات ، بغیر نیوکلیر ناب کو گھمایے، علاقہ میں تباہی کی حقیقی دھمکی دینے کے علاوہ (فواد چوہدری کا بیانیہ) پاکستان کی مرضی کا حل حاصل کرنے کی اور کونسی صورتیں ہوسکتیں ہیں ؟

    #49
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    باوا جی – سوشل میڈیا پر تو بتایا جا رہا تھا ، کے ٹرمپ دو ہفتے تک عمران خان سے ملاقات کے سحر میں مبتلا رہا ہے اور ہر آنے جانے والے سے عمران خان کی تعریفیں کر رہا ہے :serious:

    شامی بھائی

    صدر ٹرمپ کو یقین ہی نہیں آ رہا تھا کہ وہ عمران خان جیسے عظیم آدمی سے شرف ملاقات حاصل کر رہا ہے

    وہ بار بار حیران ہو کر سی آئی اے والوں سے پوچھ رہا تھا کہ کیا یہ واقعی وہی عمران خان ہے جس نے بانوے کا ورلڈ کپ جیتا تھا؟

    #50
    Lovelyday
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    Trump saying Modi asked him to mediate between India and Pakistan on Kashmir wasn’t off the hip shot. It was a bait for all that followed. PMIK and QJ Bajwa were under less domestic pressure after US trip where apprently they gained some ground on Kashmir. India apparently reacted to US statement in haste but I feel this whole thing was staged. Pakistan civ-mil leadership was either outplayed or was part of it. I hope later else Pakistan will create even a bigger mess.

    Shirazi ji, how are you doing? I hope all is well on your side mate.

    We could only conjuncture and wish of being a fly on the wall when US was planning and plotting a conspiracy. Just as it would be repugnant for the world to believe that Modi fooled Trump by leading him to use his conversation on Kashmir to pressurize Pakistan, same as, I find it difficult to swallow that US would “collude” with Pak civ-mil against India on such a sensitive territorial issue. First, US is getting Pakistan to yield with maximum pressure policy w.r.t Afghan negotiations so why change the tact and raise Pakistan’s prize money with fabricated notion, secondly, Trump wants Indian-American vote more than the first time around, thirdly, any such move to antagonize India would not fit in the strategic partnership which US is egging on for the last three or more decades and fourthly, there is always a flip side of every action and why would Trump give Pakistan an opportunity to become the ant in his trunk?

    Having said that, US has always been part of the India-Pakistan party. Thats why, yes, I do believe that Modi did ask Trump to be an arbitrator or mediator on Kashmir but what EXACTLY was the “CONTEXT” of his “request” to Trump? This “context” is the unknown and the key to understand the G20 talks between the two.

    One thing is as clear as day light after the embarrassing episode of  Trump and India doubling down on their respective notions, that world’s largest democracy has come out of this situation battered and bruised with severely tarnished democratic credentials. Most importantly, as I conjectured above, that India looks like a spoiler to the international peace effort in Afghanistan.

    #51
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    Most plausible angle to look at India’s J&K action is against the backdrop of US and Taliban home stretch for a peace agreement. As soon as Trump egged his desire to get out of Afghanistan with or without a peace deal, the regional actors (count as many as you could) started jocking for their interests in the land locked state. Taliban agreed to not share Afghanistan land sovereignty under their control with terrorist organizations but also refused US presence in their land as well. The challenge for US and Nato is how to respond in case of an actionable lead in Afghanistan and how to counter or monitor regional power’s influence against US interests. Trump tried hard to pursue India to get Indian army in Afghanistan but to no avail. India could have agreed to send its forces and support Ghani+Karzai groups as well as had protected its billions of dollars of investment in building a library. But in hind sight it appears that Modi blinked. Trump under immense pressure to bring back his army from Afghanistan and use this achievement for 2020 election, realized that this could not happen without Pakistan. Regional powers specially India not believing in US achieving the peace with Taliban, mostly ignored Kahlilzad and his peace mission. But, Khalilzad opened new dialog with Pakistan with a flip flop that stunned the diplomatic circles. Pakistan under “maximum pressure” saw the light at the end of the tunnel and jumped at the opportunity with a bang. First Pakistan helped US conceive intra-afghan meet in Qatar. This was a huge success as even Russia could not have brought Ghani govt to participate in its summit with Taliban. Secondly, Pakistan hosted by congregating all other militant groups as well as Afghan politicians in Lahore. After that, Taliban agreed to visit (or basically showed willingness to join the peace process) Pakistan on a formal invitation by Imran and this time Afghan government (Prez Ghani) did not object as it did before. This showed that there is a way to reconcile all Afghan parties and group on an agenda that could give US “mission accomplished” banner for Afghanistan war. These activities showed that quite the contrary, Pakistan not only has leverage over Taliban but also over all the major players in Afghanistan political set up. Additionally, it is a partner which could serve as a launching pad for US + Nato intelligence base when US forces are pulled out. Khalilzad’s efforts of more than a year had brought nothing but travel expenses, and political dismay for Trump. But as soon as, Trump gave Pakistan a chance to prove him wrong, to everyone’s surprise, Pakistan delivered the progress report with glowing colors, leaving India shining like a billboard in the middle of a desert. India had been castigated from all summits by all parties, be it China or Russia. US even went further in early July by not even inviting India to peace talks in Afghanistan and officially formed a consultation group, ” quadrilateral consultation group“, with its members as US, China, Russia and Pakistan. One can only imagine the hurt which India felt since Jan 2019 as being the main contributor in Afghanistan being elbowed out by Pakistan and world powers. During this time India must have been grappling with a dilemma that how to trust Trump who wants to see India challenging China but then does not even see India worthy partner in Afghan peace consultation group. Who will protect India’s market share and investment in Afghanistan if and when Taliban take the majority of the control of Afghanistan? Or what will happen if Afghanistan radiating Taliban success of defeating USSR and US successively? How will this energize militants in Kashmir and their handlers sitting in Rawalpindi? How will India bring prosperity and central government control to IOK region when its counter region under Pakistan control will thrive in due time with CPEC benefits? There must have been question abound for Indian establishment who saw it clearly its marginalizing position in the region after US pull back. Thats why, I believe that with renewed prestige for Pakistan after Imran’s visits to US, India could not have let Kashmir pose a serious threat to its security and control over the Jammu & Kashmir resources. And when Trump double down on his offer to mediate between India and Pakistan over Kashmir(obliviously Pakistan played its cards well and expected a tit for tat from US to help against Modi government threats to Pakistan with diversion of rivers), it definitely spooked the stinky cinnamon rolls out of Modi and BJP party. Having absolutely no leverage over Afghanistan development led by Pakistan, with whom Modi government during first term had delinquently burnt all the bridges and seeing how desperately Trump is relying on Pakistan to help achieve the peace deal with Taliban, BJP wasted no time to pull the pin of Kashmir hand-grenade after the elections which were perfectly choreographed to present BJP as the only savior of Indian Union. May be Pakistan Foreign Minister Qureshi was sleep walking during the last six to eight months and did not realize what was happening, but it absolutely was no surprise for anyone in the game to know that India was first dismayed at its ” diplomatic isolation” from the regional developments and then was threatened by Trump’s Kashmir mediation offer. It probably happened earlier than expected but it was on the cards regardless who had won the Indian elections. Basically, India has drawn a red line which no one can cross. This is why the world powers have a mute reaction. Pakistan is making alot of noise but I think in reality or behind the curtain they are preparing for dialogue with India, which exactly was Pakistan wants. Also, Pakistan’s first reaction was that of a casual like do what you want it has no bearing on International resolution on Kashmir in UN. And also, Pindi brigade through Musharaff had long ago clearly spelled that they are ready for LoC to become an international border as long as people of both regions of Kashmir can travel freely across it. That will be an agenda point for discussion and action, I am sure. Also, India has hurt its chances to become a permanent member of UNSC. Not that the world and its powerful countries are principled but because they immediately saw how Indian government could sabotage international efforts when its own benefits are ignored by them. It is the job of Pakistan FO to broadcast folly of Indian government not just in international diplomatic circles but also in media and United Nation. But also, Pakistan has to wrap, seal and deliver the Afghan deal to Trump else diplomacy of “maximum pressure”, will continue unabated. And only achieving this successfully, Trump may come to help facilitate dialogue with India. So far, Pakistan is doing okay and despite playing to internal gallery it has shown to world that Kashmir issue will not distract them from Afghanistan deliverables. I hope Pakistan establishment will have the prudence and patience. Let Jammu & Kashmir, Ladakh and the world see how Modi delivers prosperity and jobs to the region. Whether Modi wins or loses, Pakistan and Kashmir are the winners in both the cases.

    زبردست تجزیہ لولی ڈے بھائی جی

    :clap: :clap: :clap:

    فورم واپسی پر خوش آمدید

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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    #53
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    لولی ڈے صاحب، فورم پر طویل غیر حاضری کے بعد اتنی شاندار واپسی کا شکریہ آپ کے خیال میںپاکستان کے پاس امریکی منظور نظر معاہدہ کروانے کے لئے  کونسے لیوریج یا جادو کی چھڑیاں ہیں ؟ یہ بھی فرمایئے گا کہ ابھی جب امریکہ کی گوٹ افغانستان میں پھنسی ہویی ہے تب امریکہ نے مالی اور فوجی امداد بند کر رکھی ہے ہاتھ بھی مروڑا ہوا ہے اور ہر وقت دھمکی آمیز رویہ بھی اپناتا ہے کل جب وہ افغانستان سے نکل جائے گا تو پھر وہ کیوں بھارت سے مذاکرات کرواے گا ؟ تیسری بات کیا دنیا کے بڑے ممالک کے مفاد پاکستان میں اس حد تک بڑھ جاہیں گے کہ وہ ہندوستان سے پاکستان کی مرضی و منشا کے مطابق مذاکرات کرنے پر دباؤ ڈال سکیں گے؟ چوتھی بات ، بغیر نیوکلیر ناب کو گھمایے، علاقہ میں تباہی کی حقیقی دھمکی دینے کے علاوہ (فواد چوہدری کا بیانیہ) پاکستان کی مرضی کا حل حاصل کرنے کی اور کونسی صورتیں ہوسکتیں ہیں ؟

    Saien GP, how are you doing? Thank you so very much for keeping me in your prayers.

    ںپاکستان کے پاس امریکی منظور نظر معاہدہ کروانے کے لئے  کونسے لیوریج یا جادو کی چھڑیاں ہیں

    Saien GP, the simple answer has always been in the clear view of previous US administrations, which was to accommodate Pakistan’s apprehension and authority over western region and that let Taliban be a political reality in Afghanistan.

    Finally when, after one year of scorn and humility heaped on Pakistan, US special representative Khalilzad got to the end of the road empty handed, Trump administration decided to simplified its terms of leaving an intelligence operation base in the region and just focus on bringing the troops back home. These terms were indicative of the new paradigm of US admin in the region which Trump spelled out during his presser with Imran.

    So we’re working with Pakistan and others to extricate ourselves.  Nor do we want to be policemen, because basically we’re policemen right now.  And we’re not supposed to be policemen.  We’ve been there — we’ve been there for 19 years, in Afghanistan.  It’s ridiculous.  And I think Pakistan helps us with that because we don’t want to stay as policemen.

    So basically in his press conf with Khan, he said the US must not be the region’s policeman, looking instead to regional partners to settle their conflicts. This is a seismic shift which US rep Khalilzad first indicated at the top of this year in a flip-flop to US earlier policy.  This is when I think all the regional powers and nations tried their best to assert themselves but except for Pakistan no one came close to bring togather not just Taliban but also all Afghan politicians and loya jira members and even those who are backed by Iran.

    What magic wand Pakistan had to come out as potential winner, it appears that its capacity to keep firm control over Taliban all that while and as soon as the moment for legitimacy arrived, Pakistan and Taliban were ready.  Russia and China both tried to have Taliban and turn-coat Afghan politicians to sit across the table but failed in many attempts. But Pakistan was successful in doing this as it was able to sell government to Taliban after 19 years and get its wish granted for control over its Western borders and friendly govt in Afghanistan.

    #55
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    یہ بھی فرمایئے گا کہ ابھی جب امریکہ کی گوٹ افغانستان میں پھنسی ہویی ہے تب امریکہ نے مالی اور فوجی امداد بند کر رکھی ہے ہاتھ بھی مروڑا ہوا ہے اور ہر وقت دھمکی آمیز رویہ بھی اپناتا ہے کل جب وہ افغانستان سے نکل جائے گا تو پھر وہ کیوں بھارت سے مذاکرات کرواے گا ؟

    Saien GP, development are happening at rapid pace. A day after Imran’s visit to Oval Office, US State Dept notified restoration of technical support for Pakistan worth 125mil. This was asked by Pakistan for their F-16 program upgrades.  So this is where we stand right now. If Pakistan wrap, seal and deliver the deal with Taliban and help maintain intra-afghan peace then US would like to significantly draw down its presence in Afghanistan.

    However, this draw down is not complete withdrawal, rather allowing regional players to sort out their differences or fight the war on terror for US. This mean US presence will require a host nation which definitely will be Pakistan as it will assist with its influence over Taliban which will be required because US would like to stay vigilant even after the withdrawal. WaPo reported:

    U.S. officials acknowledged there are legitimate concerns that the Taliban might not break with al-Qaeda, as Washington has demanded, or stand up to the Islamic State. Still, officials may be content with a partial troop withdrawal that opens the door to additional negotiations and keeps the counterterrorism mission alive as the status quo becomes politically untenable.

    This clearly shows how after initial breakthroughs with Taliban and Afghan politicians, US will continue to need Pakistan for further draw down opportunities. And also , this will help Pakistan to suck further aid from US as military and public funds. Trump put it this way during Oval meet with Imran:

    PRESIDENT TRUMP:  Well, thank you very much.  It’s my great honor to have the very popular and, by the way, great athlete — one of the greatest — but very popular Prime Minister of Pakistan.

    We have many things to discuss: military and terrorism and trade.  And I think we’re going to spend a lot of time talking about trade because we do very little trade with Pakistan compared to what we could be doing and should be doing when our countries really get along perfectly.  And I think we’re having that start.  We’re going to have that start.

    But there’s tremendous upside with respect to trade.  One of the things we’re going to be discussing too is hostages; perhaps the polio vaccine, because Pakistan is one of the countries, and we’ll talk about that as to, you know, what your feeling is on that.  But we have a situation in Pakistan where we want to talk about the polio, or the possible polio vaccine.

    And I think we’re going to have great meetings.  We’re going to be spending a long time together.  We have our representatives meeting right after we’re finished.  And we just came out, Mr. Prime Minister, with tremendous economic numbers for the United States — the best we’ve ever had.  We’ve got the best economy we’ve ever had.  And I think we can shift some of that over to Pakistan.  We should be doing tremendous business together.  So, I look forward to it.

    PRIME MINISTER KHAN:  Inshallah.

    Secondly, US and West as well as Middle East will not want to see repeat of non-state actors thrive while Taliban are in power.  This is why I believe, US is working on a roadmap which definitely will require Pakistan to reverse the course of its terrorist nurseries for the better of all regional nations. This draw down is just the beginning and if Pakistan continues to deliver positive results in curbing the terrorists then Trump shown what US will do to help Pakistan.

    #56
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    تیسری بات کیا دنیا کے بڑے ممالک کے مفاد پاکستان میں اس حد تک بڑھ جاہیں گے کہ وہ ہندوستان سے پاکستان کی مرضی و منشا کے مطابق مذاکرات کرنے پر دباؤ ڈال سکیں گے؟

    I think World wants India to put aside hostilities while Pakistan is require to put-off terrorist nurseries. This is absolutely necessary to stop February like situation which could spiral out of control of everyone’s hand. These Afghan negotiations will stand Pakistan in good stead as we have seen so far.

    I think P-5 will give it another go and will make India and Pakistan to sit across the table. How much Pakistan get out of such potential opportunity will definitely depend on its relationship with US and specially if Trump will be in White House.

    #57
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    چوتھی بات ، بغیر نیوکلیر ناب کو گھمایے، علاقہ میں تباہی کی حقیقی دھمکی دینے کے علاوہ (فواد چوہدری کا بیانیہ) پاکستان کی مرضی کا حل حاصل کرنے کی اور کونسی صورتیں ہوسکتیں ہیں ؟

    I dont read FC and will leave him to prepare Pakistan monkeys for space.

    Maximum Pressure policy of US and I think potential realization of Pakistan dependence on foreign countries for its economy and defense will force establishment hand to rethink its disastrous brinkmanship. Because as long as Trump is in WhiteHouse, it will not work. Pakistan decision makers are more assertive because they have seen that their sacrificing terrorist nurseries will be rewarded with prestige and prize. One can only hope prudence and patience from our decision makers.

    #58
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    زبردست تجزیہ لولی ڈے بھائی جی :clap: :clap: :clap: فورم واپسی پر خوش آمدید

    Bawa Ji, Salam, how are you doing? Thank you for keeping me in your prayers.

    I wish everyone a blessed Eid ul-Adha. May Allah bless your family and this Eid brings you happiness and prosperity throughout the coming year.

    #59
    Guilty
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

     آپ کے خیال میں پاکستان کے پاس امریکی منظور نظر معاہدہ کروانے کے لئے کونسے لیوریج یا جادو کی چھڑیاں ہیں ؟ یہ بھی فرمایئے گا کہ ابھی جب امریکہ کی گوٹ افغانستان میں پھنسی ہویی ہے تب امریکہ نے مالی اور فوجی امداد بند کر رکھی ہے ہاتھ بھی مروڑا ہوا ہے اور ہر وقت دھمکی آمیز رویہ بھی اپناتا ہے کل جب وہ افغانستان سے نکل جائے گا تو پھر وہ کیوں بھارت سے مذاکرات کرواے گا ؟ تیسری بات کیا دنیا کے بڑے ممالک کے مفاد پاکستان میں اس حد تک بڑھ جاہیں گے کہ وہ ہندوستان سے پاکستان کی مرضی و منشا کے مطابق مذاکرات کرنے پر دباؤ ڈال سکیں گے؟ چوتھی بات ، بغیر نیوکلیر ناب کو گھمایے، علاقہ میں تباہی کی حقیقی دھمکی دینے کے علاوہ (فواد چوہدری کا بیانیہ) پاکستان کی مرضی کا حل حاصل کرنے کی اور کونسی صورتیں ہوسکتیں ہیں ؟

    پروٹوکول ۔۔۔۔۔

    کیا آپ اس بات پر روشنی ڈال سکتے ہیں ۔۔۔ یا کنفرم کرسکتے ہیں کہ ۔۔۔۔۔۔ عمران خان کے حالیہ دورہ امریکہ میں ۔۔۔۔۔۔

    ۔۔۔ صدر ڈونلڈ  ٹرمپ ۔۔۔۔  نے اکیلے عمران خان کو سوائے ۔۔۔ سا تھ والی کرسی پر ۔۔۔۔ بٹھا کر ۔۔۔ رسمی فوٹو سیشن کے علا وہ ۔۔۔۔۔۔

    ڈونلڈ ٹرمپ یا پینٹا گون ۔۔۔۔ نے عمران خان سے ۔۔۔۔ کوئی سنجیدوہ ٹیبل ٹاک ۔۔۔۔۔ میٹنگ ۔۔۔۔ کی ہے  ۔۔۔۔ افغانستان ۔۔۔۔ طالبان ۔۔۔۔ امریکن ود ڈرال کے بارے میں

    یا ۔۔۔۔ عمران خان سے کسی بھی قسم کی ۔۔۔۔ دفاعی امور پر ۔۔۔۔ کشمیر ۔۔۔۔ بھارتی امور پر ۔۔۔۔۔ بمہ وفد ۔۔۔۔ کوئی سنجیدہ ۔۔۔ میٹنگ ۔۔۔۔ ٹیبل ٹاک ۔۔۔۔ معا ھدہ کیا ہے ۔۔۔۔

    ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔

    ڈونلڈ ٹرمپ کے ساتھ والی کرسی پر بٹھا کر ۔۔۔۔۔ اکیلے عمران خان ۔۔۔۔ اور ٹرمپ ۔۔۔ کی رسمی ۔۔۔۔۔ سرکاری فوٹو سیشن ۔۔۔ ھینڈ شیک  کی سرکاری رسم  کے علاوہ  ۔۔۔۔۔۔

    یا ۔۔۔۔۔ ما ئیک پو مپیو ۔۔۔۔ کی ۔۔۔۔ اکیلے عمران خان ۔۔۔۔ کے سا تھ ۔۔۔۔ یو ۔۔ لک ۔۔۔ را ک۔۔۔۔ سٹار ۔۔۔ جیسی غیر سنجیدہ ۔۔۔۔ بے ہودہ ۔۔۔۔۔ جگت ۔۔۔ کے علاوہ ۔۔۔۔

    حالیہ دورہ امریکہ میں ۔۔۔ عمران خان کو  ۔۔۔ کسی  قسم کی ۔۔۔ خارجہ امور  ۔۔۔۔۔ دفاعی ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔  ٹیبل ٹاک ۔۔۔ میٹنگ ۔۔۔۔۔۔ معا ھدہ ۔۔۔۔  ا ٹینڈ  کرتے ۔۔ دیکھا یا سنا گیا ہے ۔۔۔۔۔۔

    ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Guilty.
    #60
    Shirazi
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    Re: کشمیر کو خصوصی درجہ دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کا اعلان

    Lovelyday Jee

    USA seeking Pakistan help on Afghan Taliban is not a new phenomenon. I recall Gen. Kiyani made initial commitments and became buddy of US General, forgetting his name,  but didn’t deliver and when he was leaving he bashed Kiyani and Pakistani Army in his final Senate hearing. You seem little too optimistic that Pakistan will help US-Taliban deal. I don’t see that coming, unfortunately. There will be no thaw in Pak-US relation. After losing Dhakka  and now Srinagar let’s not distract them from their last hope Kabul. Kabul will be ruled by Taliban though last time they did under Mullah Umar didn’t give us an inch on Durand line but doesn’t matter. Our goal is clear barbaric but friendly regime is Kabul. East Pakistan, 911, Osama nothing changed GHQ’s mindset not sure what makes you so hopeful now?

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